We presents the program acts about Fines Arts teaching in Lyceum realised during the academic season 2003-2004 by Sun Studio under the promotion of Spanish Culture, Education and Sports Ministery . The acts we presents make references to advance in this program.
Objectifs: The finality of this program have been make the interest to the scholars people the artistic manifestation news like an human being expression, put the interest in the experimental art side.
Methodology: The program is structured in two parts. The first part is driven through meeting with the scholars to teach them theories and the historic evolution of XX century art. And the second part the scholars have been invited to make reflection about the explications of the first part, with the begin of a forum and make questions to teacher.
Time: The program is made during May the week since 10 to 14 in Lyceum Sacrat Cor in El Vendrell (Tarragona).
Resources: The Sun Studio to make reality this program put the executive responsibility in the prestigious brasilian Doctor Roberto Dossantos who was the driver of this program. We like give thanks to Lyceum Sacrat Cor in El Vendrell (Tarragona) for his help with the resources through his Art Story Department and to the teacher staff because they the teachers have helped us with the coordination with the scholar people and they give us the pass to acts space to our work.
Dr. Roberto Dosantos
The NO Group suppose the heavy instauration of Picture Poetry in Spain. This group is formed by the most of those that previously had been members of the Problematica 63 collective, under the direction of Julio Campal, an artist resident in Madrid, who is considered the picture poetry introductory in Spain. When he died (1968 year) the group directed by him changes his name and, remembering to his master, his members make the continuation of the Campal work, they diffuse his knowing, sponsoring experimental art projects, like shows, anthologies, symposiums, etc but anyone continues also in his own way and his own work line, and all this activity make the prosperity of the picture poetry in Spain, during the 70’s. It put the verification that the Campal ideas wasn’t air as they are apprehended by that artists, the Campal friends, that artists add, remake and interpret the Campal’s ideas. It’s mean, the ship was ready to begin his travel.
We must consider that all this “dark” work in formation and information and projection (except the creative work) was the product, mainly, of the individual efforts and less a product of the collective effort, but its no problem because the NO Group was the sem of which born all the experimental art in Spain.
2) Why “Textos and antitextos” means a top in the Spanish experimental literature?
“Textos and antitextos” is a reference in the same way that another book inside N.O. group, I don’t think in other way, nobody must more importance to this book that to another. Of course, it’s a book very important for his author, Fernando Millán because in this book you can find the begin of posterior work line in him. After of all, all those N.O. group’ s books, in that age, (since 1970 to 1972, more or less), had a very low importance and projection except in a minuscule circuit. Now we say the interest of those works and we can put their valour, so, sometimes we say of those books that they mean an age.
3 How is enveloped the Picture poetry during the Franco Deal?
In the first look it seems that this cultural manifestations would be forbed, but, really, the picture poetry was so forbid than another thing if the autority thought that anything was disaccord with his ideas. In that time, the only kind of associations allowed by the law (excepting the pertainings to the State) was that association in rapport with the quarter church or with the university. This lasts groups had autonomy because the University was an area restricted to the authority (so you can see in the TV documentaries about the Spanish transition, by example, why the people stood into the university, so the police was not allowed enter in the university area). The picture poetry born in one of this universitarians association that it’s called “Problemática 63”, founded by Julio Campal in 1964, it’s was a subgroup of Musicals Youth, that it was contained in the Complutense University in Madrid. In this manner this group was legal and can realise his activities of which we are speaking. N.O. Group made picture poetry shows in Madrid which supposed a great impact on the public, because that people had a very classics preferences, in many more quantity than now. However, the power since the first time, saw an inoffensive art (because nobody paid attention in his covered contestation) and the power allowed this acts without any problem. A example of it is given in 1968 when a group segregated of N.O. group realise the ROTOR picture poetry show in Madrid, in which inaugural party was invited the Franco wife (like you know, Franco was the supreme authority in that age), a fact very polemic between them because somebody though that the picture poetry had to combat to Franco Deal and it wasn’t good inviting to his personalities to their acts.
At last, the authority allowed envelope the Picture poetry. The troubles came of the same creators, interns troubles, for example, with that ROTOR show and, later, with the foundation of the N.O. official publisher (they are words simply), integrated into the Parnaso 70, Universitarian Association, which it was the publisher of the collection named El anillo del cocodrilo, collection where some NO member will publish their books, so José María Montells, the director of this association, was a ultratraditionalist member, helped by the Franco’ s Deal. Mean ones didn’t want publish in this association anyplay because it had signified is agree with the Franco Deal, others though that it hadn’t a political signified because in that years any Spanish institution, anyway, was in rapport with the dictatorship (all those association a mentality near to it) and the N.O.members must profit the little open space allowed them by the dictatorship with the object to communicate their ideas. This situation generated a very hard discussion inside the NO group, which concluded with the end of the group in 1971.
4) How is linked picture poetry and the writing?
The link picture poetry-writing is the same link existing between the comics and the oleo picture. It’s no a joke. I want mean that picture poetry is a evolution of traditional writing, which is formed by significant texts created on a words order, everyone of them operating in one way to make united the group, making a grammatical sense (all the parts must be in concordance) and logical sense, more or less. We read and write on the text according to a “way of use”, the grammar handbook (Spanish grammar for us). Well, the picture poetry is a text, but his construction way, his grammar is different as in the traditional written text we use the words like if its were bricks, in the picture poetry text we can use not only words but letters and images that communicate the ideas and the emotions and they are basics for the text comprehension. So, the picture poetry is a text where words and images are powered one to the other.
Really, the Picture poetry born in a critic reflect about the language employed by the humans being and their communication way, the writing. There are many kinds of languages and writings, the literary is not the only (the literary appears in the journals and in the books). Any human knowing area has his own language, fir example, you can able to “read” or execute the music through the musical system notation (the score) and the software language are written languages. There are many visual languages, so, the used by semaphores, the harbour signals, the car lights, etc. The picture poetry author mixes the languages to expressing, and the picture is the glue employed to fix the group, through the picture you can put a sense diverse with many resources: you can growing the lettering, inserting photography, adding objects. The picture poetry create a new way of writing mixing various languages which make power the ones to the others and, like the writing is transmit through the text you can read sometimes that they are called “visual texts” in place of “picture poem”.
5) How can you make the differences between conceptual poetry and experimental poetry?
Before we have been speaking about the conceptual art, but not about conceptual poems, which it’s very different, as the conceptual poem is a kind of poem that reflects about our knowing, it’s a similar to a philosophic interpretation into the traditional poetry, it’s very old and it’s enveloped in Spain with the 27 Generation. They are two concepts different.
Well, then, you want mean the conceptual art, yes.
There is no a great difference between the two kinds of plays of which you ask, experimental poetry and conceptual art. The first is called in this manner a great group of plays that they have not a traditional aesthetic, it’s a great group where we can find the conceptual art and the picture poetry, in some cases both can be not very different but in picture poetry the image is very powered, so his lements are located according to a picturity composition idea, like a picture, in union to linguistic element or not linguistic (photography and other images, designs, for example). However, the conceptual art author has not this plastic thinking, as that’s important is the idea to transmit, even this poem not is obligation the linguistic element but is “Poetry” due to narrative character. Not all Experimental Art is Picture poetry, it’s depends if an author decides call so his plays, the experimental poetry is a very great group where is Sound poetry or some scenic arts, also.
6) A ready-made can be too a picture poem?
Yes, if the composition is elaborated on a plane area, because the picture and the literary codes used in the picture poetry are transmitted through an area on two dimensions, the page or the draw are his reference coordinates. In this way, of we make a ready-made photography the results is more near of the picture poetry but the object itself isn’t it. If we add design or words or anything to our ready-made photography then we can call picture poetry that result because in that composition should be operating some codes on two dimensions, so, it will be a picture poem when divers elements are fixed to a paper, as the reference is the twice dimension. But a ready-made (it’s a north-american expression) itself is not picture-poem, it’s just called Experimental poetry.
7) It’s possible picture poetry without linguistic elements?
Of course, because you can see a link between some different languages. It’s enough a narrative sense to call to a experimental composition picture poem.
8) How you can make the difference between a conceptual poet, a pre-conceptual and one third post-conceptual poet?
We have spoke about the conceptual poet and I the problem was concluded, I think your question is about the fact of reflects about the language system in a new order…Well, it’s called conceptualism thinking. From this thinking line born the concrete poetry around 1957, so, we make differences between pre-concrete, concrete and post-concrete poet. But we must put the definition of one concept to see the differences with the other, so, we are going to explain how is the concrete poetry.
Basically, the finality of the concrete poetry is reflects about the language system using the language resources paying attention of his graphic valour. It’s mean the poem subject is the own poem and too his lecture key. We have seen the Pignatari poem about Coca-Cola, for example. It’s a poem that is not traditional, it has some iconicity degrees, but it based upon the logical association made by the words. It’s a language scientific poetry.
Before this situation, we are in the pre-concrete, there are iconicity taken like rhetoric elements to make intensity an idea into the poem, you can see the traditional verse and the not lined verse (and it’s a visual resource) but the verse is not broken still; well, some words are written according to the object form of which that words represents. But all this experiences are integrated into the traditional language system, excepting the cases of Apollinaire’s calligrams (they have a great visuality but continue with the logical reference mentality) and the poems of the Italian futurist where the picture poetry begins according to our mentality.
Finally, the picture poetry like a kind of experimental art and literature is the evolution of the Concrete poetry. It’s integrally visual, it’s based not only on the word but in the letters or characters and the links between his elements have more complexity as there are some languages codes simultaneously, even no literary.
And basically this is the difference between those three groups, according two ideas: language used and iconicity.
9) What’s the relationship of Duchamp with the conceptualism?
It’s very strong. Through his plays put the direction to conceptualism. Duchamp creates the ready-made in 1917, it’s an object that changes his usual use, it’s mean, it change his sense. Duchamp presents his play “Fountain” in a show in Paris, this play consisted in a urinary supported directly on the show surface. It was an object changed in his location and show to public under a name which it seems a rapport with his use like the urinary-object, but when Duchamp showed this object in this way he wanted tell us that is no an urinary but another thing. The sense in this Duchamp play is make an ask ourself about the art nature (and many things more). This is the main idea that some artists think and envelope (with apportations many importants like the play of Joseph Beuys) all this knowledge and thinking help to born the conceptualism.
10) What’s the rapport the futurism and dada with the picture poetry?
The futurism creates the aesthetic base of the picture poetry in the first XX century decade like today we understand it, on the mentality of “words in freedom”, words and letters put hazardously on the page, so the poetic word is not linked to verse but according to visual perception laws. The dada is not a group concretely, but a thinking line that begin after the First World War and use the “words in freedom” of futurist conception to create his plays, and Dada makes also ready-made with a sense very critic; Dada defends a new nature art based in a new human being mentality and this ideas need a new expression which only the words in freedom were able to offer them. This spirit is alive still, after so many years, into the Picture poetry.
11) I didn’t unsderstand those words about Expresive comunication’ s unities like singles structures changing. Neither the rapport of identity between the way and the sustance
Sometimes the scientific language makes the darkness, like in this sentence, but his signified is very easy. It means a experimental way which has the base in a elements serie in which remains one element (the same element) in some composition and on this matrix, we put any variations like we want it. So we can recognize the base in all the group, so all this elements make a serie. It’s that.
12) What relationship exists between Sound or Phonetic Poetry and Concret Poetry?
It’s the same that it produced between the music and his partiture, in this way we can say the concret poetry is the partiture on which the Sound Poetry is made. The Concret Poetry, since the theoricals elements, is more united to sound than the picture poetry. Now I explain it you.
The concret poetry founders, in Brasil, though that the sound was the manifestation of the writing through the phonems which make any words. This writing, like usual, is lineal and has an order, any word is unchanned to another in a grammatical order (it’s the way how is transmitted us any text). Well, the new writing created by that brasilians hadn’t a lineal succession neither a grammatical order. It was, really, a new graphical expression, it’s mean, a new interpretation of the signs, a new linguistic code. It’s the Concret Poetry, and his special sounds (modulation, cadence, rhythm, …all rare to written word) was the origin of the Sound Poetry.
13) It’s right Xavier Sabater, Fátima Miranda and Bertomeu Ferrando are pioneers in the introduction of the sound inside experimental poetry?
The poetry sound’s pioneers are the Italian futurists, approximately in the first quart of XX century. Even, one of them, named Luigi Russolo, created a sounds machine. So that artist that you have said are very long in the time. In Spain, this poetry was introduced by Julio Campal, and Fernando Millán worked in this artistic area also. Sabater, Miranda y Ferrando practice it since second first of the 70’s. Then, they are not the pioneers but they are a very good sound poets with a very important sound plays and a great divulgative and critic work.
14) You have said that about the existence of the Texto poético Collective during the 70’s but I don’t know in right if they are the picture poetry precursors, or if they are the sound poetry and performance precursors, or precursors of all in the same time
Texto Poético, it’s the name of this collective (directed by Ferrando) and it’s named also his own magazine. This valencian group has an idea of interartistical work, because his members are came of diferents areas: plastic artists, musics, poets, etc… In beginning they work the sound poetry and the action art, which, during that dates (half 70’s) was active in Spain, but we cannot forget their work in picture poetry neither, of course, their work in experimental art. Through their magazine, the people can be able to know the experimental work of very Spanish artists whose are beginning in that moment, and Texto Poético admises a very amount of artistic ideas. So the Texto Poetico group had a open artistic mentality and he was able to unite under his name to many artistic lines. It created, however, a group line very solid and qualified.
15) What is the position of Julio Campal and Kurt Schwittersinto the sound poetry?
It’s no right make the comparations, obviously, if it was your mind. We can put only the contributions of every creator into his social context or into his historical moment. Kurt Scwitters, born in Deustchland, is vinculed to dadaism, and he is one of the pioneers of the sound poetry, he researchs and puts the sound poetry theories, and he declares the rapport between the picture and the music. His main contribution in sound poetry is the play “Ursonate” (it’s mean in English: “voice sonate”), this play is a model of phonetic or sound poetry.
Julio Campal goes very later, in Madrid, 1962 (14 years later the Schwitters death), so the sound poetry was very progressed it was dues to the technology advances in sound generation and sound recording, so Campal looks a field very divers. Campal retakes the artistic avangards theories that it was in París mainly, he knows rightly the Schwitters plays and also anothers authors contemporaries to this uruguaian, like Noigandres brasilian group, or the French Henri Chopin. Campal, once time in Spain, vulgates and works himself the sound poetry, his work have influences on Fernando Millán who composed also him a sound poem. But the work of Campal was stimulate the artistic creation and in in this way the beginning of the sound poetry in Spain.
16) There is in the nature between polypoetry and sound poetry or this last is a subgener? Also I want know if the polypoetry has a transcendence on the contemporary art land and, well, whose are his mains representants?
The difference between polypoetry and sound poetry is like go to the theatre to listen a lyric play, but the same play you can listen it through a CD. The sound poetry allow be recorded and you can listen it in CD, it’s a production to be listened, however the polypoetry must you are present when it is made because it’s not only the music and all you can listen but also another kind of signs: the lights, the colours, the interpretation, etc … It’s mean, that sound poetry is integrated in a theatral action which completes his significate.
Actually the polypoetry stands in a situation very right. Many poets think that can able to work with a very rich language very expressive which is understood by the public without troubles. Also the technologies evolution has made possible this polypoetry develop, so the software and the new sound production and recording methods. All the mentioned elements have made a situation very good gor the polypoetry and now a many festivals are realised all over the world. In Spain, some of the mains representants are Bertomeu Ferrando, Xavier Canals, Calleja, Sabater or Llorenç Barber.
17) It’s for me a crazy put differences between performance, plastic action and happening. Also you have told that they are modern genres and I think that they are came of a old centenary tradition
You have absolutely the raison. We can see their precedents during all the art history but they are only precedents, so when something is used with another sense, with another mentality, then is became in a new thing. In this question, the plastic action is created from the scenic arts, it is a group where is including the performance and the happening. The plastic action is named so because was created through a special picture technique: the action painting (which make the characteristic to an artistic line). The action painting is elaborated through the same action of artist in his movements, and during all the creative process, at last, it’s became in a theatrical action. In this point, all the artistic people reflect over the active participation of the public in the play art itself. Through this reflection born the performance and the happening, two kinds of plastic actions different because in the first, the performance, is realised a theatrical action according to an script previous but in the happening the public take part in this act and make modify the original play through his action, the public, so, introduces more hazardous than the performance.
18) Why Joan Brossa is become in a picture poetry myth if he worked in a lot of artistic areas simultaneously ?
It’s happen sometimes when an author works in some areas in the same time that he can’t be notorious in every area he worked, so an author can practise one discipline with more successful than anothers. It isn’t how an author watch his work himself. No. It’s how an author is watched by the critic and by the public. They decide what is notorious in the play of an author. So, all people speaks about the Cervantes romans but nobody (or almost nobody) speaks about his theatre or his poetry, because the aesthetical valour that Hugo got in his romans make the dark to rest of his play to massif public. It’s no usual you can find an author which is notorious in all the artistic areas, in many times it depend of the space that one play make in the plays collection of an author and the contribution to rest of plays of an artist group in a territory and it no depend of the same play quality. In most of times there are academic conceptions independents of the public preferences, this conceptions in many times are created by us the teachers to organizer the object according to a method.
Well. It was happened with the Brossa’s works and the massive public knows him by his ready- mades and his picture poetry. But Brossa was cabaret actor and he wrote experimental theatre pieces which he named “scenic poems”, he has some volumes published. And a more number of volumes retake his “grammatical” poetry (experimental also) and finally, he has amateur in magic and he likes the cinema… It’s reasonable your question: If he has done many things, why is known by his ready-made only?. The answer is a reason no-literary. The art galleries look in the Brossa’s ready-mades a great valour mercantile, all them have a product very competitive in the front of the European market. So, once upon the democracy deal backs to Spain the gallerist are busy make the promotion of this plays art (only a side in Brossa). Public institution also realise shows and sponsoring Brossa all over Spain with the objective grows the plays valour. However, Brossa not jointed the benefaction because he had transferred the right over his works to the Catalonians powers in exchange a little pension to his life. Brossa has very few resources forever and he dead poor although he had enrich to many people. You can see that there is no justice every time, unfortunately.
19) The ready-made is too picture poetry or it’s another else?
You need remember which I speak you before. The picture poetry is made on a page, he has two dimensions, if there is an thing fixed to this page, the group will be picture poetry because the group don’t miss the double dimension. But a ready-made is tridimensional, it’s a kind of sculpture. If you look a ready-made photography isn’t picture poetry is ready-made because that photography save the ready-made image but not change his structure. Concluding: the ready-made is named experimental poetry because it has a narrative intention, like the picture poetry, but that has tree dimensions, then, it’s an sculpture.
20) The artist’s book has an specials characteristich?
Of course. The artist’s book grows when the book is looked like an manufactured object with an artistic consideration itself. It’s obvious that this mentality begin when the printer is born, in the XV century and begins the collections business. This manifestations have paid attention about the editions quality. Yes, an artist’s book has specials characteristic. Firstly, it is an minority edition, even one only copy, the most of the times with artisan composition (bind, paper, lettering, …) including original pictures and other images in any technique and making differences between the copies so every book is the only.
21)What did you like mean with the representation was the great Brossa’s competence?
Brossa had the great trouble about researching the process through us take a perception of the reality, so, we can say that the reality around us, those all us can see, is a perception generated by the ideas in which we have been educated. The try of Brossa is look the world without any filter but objectively, in consequence of it, he has make a different performance of the world using in divers way the language because it’s another the reality which he wants communicate. For this reason the performance, it’s mean, the way of world representation and his own idea, is the main Brossa trouble.
It’s a French said and it’s mean “found poem” in English. The poeme trouvé is born in the surrealism group (we must remember that this group born in Paris), it’s a way of the ready-made and it’s used to refer a play which have been retaken physically in the street or around of the artist without artistic manipulation, so, it want mean the art is with us in anywhere. More later, this expression (used only for a kind of ready-made) is extended to literature area to saying the poems transcript of the reality without clear, without add neither rest anything.
We are spoke about the grammar or language sign like a system to make combinations with them and so make us understand through that sign. There are many grammar kinds so there are many signs: in the music, in the computer, etc. The word is a kind of sign and it is based the verbal language (“verbal” has the origin in “verbus”, it wants mean in Latin “word”) when we are speacking we are making a verbal performance, so when we are writing but in the writing we use the letters which represents the verbal language sounds. Well, this letters must communicate anything rational and so they have an order, this order make the logical word (for example: we are not say “terwa” but we say “water”). If those words are all linked one with another, for example, “We have found it” we are reading it according to the order in which we have written them (in a lineal order) and all they occupy an space of time. The concret poetry try read a writing without that lineal order, in an strike, through a visual impact which eliminate the lineal order.
The calligram is a graphic representation through his own letters of the message communicated by itself. The poem structure is in rapport with his subject, it’s mean, a calligram is in the same time, the form and the contents, and this elements are the two dimensions of the literature, what you say and how you said it. The calligram breaks the espace (that lineal order) and so the lecture time, breaks the traditional sound words because the words isn’t fished by the lineal order.
The semiotic is the science which studies the communication sign and his rapports, it’s mean, studies all the previous mentioned languages (music, theatre, software, etc.) so, semiotic sense is a redundance. The word “semiotical” usually signifies the study of no-verbal signs, graphics and sonorous, but the semiotic is occupied about the writing understanding it like a sign system which communicate a message, and the semiotic studies the sign interaction. In rapport to picture poetry, we say about put semiotical the writing because the writing is loaded with a graphic entity that it’s able to transmit an emotive or a thinking valour, so, all them put a more information on the message written, which transcends the writing code. For example, the sculpture of the “A” letter made by Brossa located in Barcelona has a gigantic mass, then, this “A” letter has not the literal sense of the “A” letter but many anothers as his plasticity, his mass, his bright, …
A semiotical sign, like I have said nearly, maybe any sign, any sign made inside a communication system, based upon the writing or not. So, the alphabetical writing is a kind of writing built by the logical combination of elements (28 letters usually, our abecedary). The writing is, then, a system, and, in it, the graph is the writing body; when we write, we are drawing the letters. It’s the graph. And anyone has his own graph, it depends of physical and psychological aspects. The way of drawing the letters is studied by the graphology. The aesthetical use of the graph is called calligraphy, it’s a making picture method many time used in the contemporary art.
The semiotic study make the way to the experimentation because it studies and values the sense of the no-literary and no-artistic signs to become them in an artistic codification. This try about become a no-artistic thing (in previous) in artistic thing is very important to the experimental poetry as it’s due to look for the totality art itself where all the artistic disciplines be represented to make better the artistic view of the reality.
I shouldn’t say it in this way, but it’s a good comment. Apollinare creates the calligram where the sense is the same form of the poem, it’s mean, those is said you can look it reflected graphically. In union with another elements the calligram put his portion in the creation of the concrete poetry, so, Apollinare had a direct contribution to make the way to that poetry.
This 3 artistic movement is in rapport with mail art because they use it to envelope and transmit the ideas; well, it wasn’t only an option, but a need first of all, as in that age when this movements grow, the fax wasn’t, the e-mail neither, the computer nobody have thought in their existence, so, the post was the main communication way in that time.
The conceptual poetry has a very little linking with the other concepts, but we are going to begin since the first point. The modernism, as you know, is a literary movement born in Spain and Latino-America between end XIX century and first years of the XX century, and has like the main head in Ruben Darío and, in Spain, the named 98 Generation (the critic side of modernism in Spain). The modernism is, first of all, an spirit, a mentality that is transmitted to divers artistic disciplines, like fines art or the architecture, one example of it, in Spain, are the builds of Gaudí.
The avant-gardes is a artistic mentality based in the review of artistic languages that exists or in the creation of its, and it appear when you need reflects new emotions, new ideas which the academic knowing can’t able to reflects or reflects it with a less valour. It’s called “the age of the avant-gardes” and this age comprises more or less the first world post-war years between 1914 and 1921. Then all over Europe born the Abstractionism, the cubism, the futurism, the dada, the surrealism, the ultraism (in Spain) and, at least, all the lines of which we have spoke.
Finally, the contemporary art is a concept that is defined like the art made in our time, as “contemporary” is a time concept and it want mean approximately “our time”. The Contemporary art or literature comprehends since the end of Second world war until our days.